BOOTSTRAPPING 32 upvotes 2008

Bootstrapped startup problem: credit card company abuse

32 pts
Hacker News Signal
2008 · Shared by @DocSavage
Bootstrapped startup problem: credit card company abuse by @DocSavage

The Founder's Submission

Direct narrative and submission text authored by @DocSavage on Hacker News:

If you're bootstrapping your startup, you may turn to credit cards at some point. We just cancelled an Advanta business card because of their predatory practices, and we'll have to eat some excessive charges that could've been much worse if we didn't have cash available. If you have advice on where we can file a complaint (aside from FDIC), let me know.

Advanta (http://advanta.com ↗) advertises a business card with "0% Fixed APR on balance transfers for 15 months with a 7.99% fixed APR therafter." I thought I saw this card positively reviewed in one of the entrepreneurial magazines. We signed up and for about 9 months, we made some charges and paid the balance in full each month. Then we decided to take out $25k in cash advance from the account with a reasonable transaction fee capped at $50. A few months after taking that cash advance, we were notified, in the words of a customer service rep, of "a slight change to our lending guidelines since your account was established." That slight change was an increase from 7.99% to 18.99%.

The notification letter was dated Feb 29, 2008 (date of letter, not receipt) and the new rate was effective March 20, 2008. The March 20 change was conveniently 5 days before the end of the billing cycle so that Advanta could take advantage of their billing clause that "any change in APR becomes effective as of the first day in the billing cycle.." So both the notification and rate increase happened within a single billing cycle.

Note that this increase in interest was NOT tied to any late payment. In an e-mail, a customer service rep wrote that the change occured because "Advanta reviews lending guidelines on a regular basis to ensure that they are in line with industry standards and the changing economy." Except they are still advertising the 7.99% rate on their website and mailings. Who do they think they're kidding?

After receiving the letter and corresponding with Advanta, I paid the $27k balance in full two days before the March 20 rate change and even had a negative $200 due because of a LogoWorks rebate. But because I did not send a signed written notice that I rejected the modified account terms, Advanta billed me 18.99% finance charges for the previous month on the cash balance.

We can only imagine how many people they rip off this way. It seems clear to us, they've automated this way of doing business to fleece people who don't rapidly and precisely respond to their unethical business practices.

Other ways they gain profits: "Cash Back Rewards" that aren't credited to your account but sent as cutout checks in sheets of paper behind regular account statements. They realize people, particular ones with online accounts and software, may not open or even notice the checks. So these "void within 90 days" checks will go unused. The envelopes containing these checks won't have any unusual markings and just say "Statement Enclosed." But envelopes that have cash advance checks and other ways to get you in debt have "Inside: Important Information About Your Account" on the envelope. Do you see a pattern here?

In looking at some card review sites, it appears we aren't the only ones getting the jump in interest for no reason. We contacted the FDIC and spoke with the Advanta specialist. It seems as long as they are following the business agreement they wrote (to fleece consumers, I believe), then the FDIC can't do anything.

Retrospective Overview & Key Insights

Distilled reflections, business mechanics, and tactical takeaways:

Published in 2008, this chronicle by @DocSavage details the mechanics of building a profitable, self-funded business without venture backing.

Core Principles for Independent Builders:
1
Charging customers from day one acts as the ultimate filter for building software that solves genuine, high-urgency problems.
2
Keeping fixed overhead low and leveraging lean infrastructure allows founders to stay alive until market tailwinds kick in.
3
Small, repetitive improvements in customer retention and conversion rates yield massive returns over multi-year horizons.
Community Debate Themes:

The community focused on B2B customer acquisition channels, cold email vs SEO distribution, and balancing full-time employment with side-project development.

Community Discussions & Critical Reviews

Key perspectives, counter-arguments, and peer founder insights debated on Hacker News (25 total discussions):

JY @jyoon Peer Contributor
LN @lnguyen Peer Contributor
TE @ten-seven Peer Contributor
PA @parker Peer Contributor

Seriously guys, I know becoming a successful entrepreneur requires taking some risks, but for Pete's sake, stay away from funding your aspirations with credit card debt. If it hits the fan, your credit rating could become ruined forever. Not to mention you could easily crater into bankruptcy, which is a predicament that not only has financial and legal implications, but social and emotional ones as well.

Fund your start up with equity, not debt. Either your own, or somebody else's.

Too many lives are ruined with credit card burdens...

TC @tc Peer Contributor

From what you've described, this ordeal cost you about $248.64 [1]. In terms of the problems that people funding young companies with credit cards often get themselves into, you escaped relatively unscathed.

Rather than looking for avenues of complaint, you may be best served to spend that energy on your startup. As far as business lessons at the school of hard knocks go, $250 is getting off cheap.

[1] (* 27000 (1- (exp (/ (- 1899/10000 799/10000) 12))))

HISTORICAL ERA Web 2.0 Genesis (2007–2013)
COMMUNITY SCORE 32 points
TOTAL DISCUSSIONS 25 comments
TOPICS & TECH STACK: